Tari says, "they are named 'zappa, enos, dylan, and'"
Tari says, "just guess"
Tari says, "you can't"
Tari says, "AMOS"
Eric says, "wayne newton"
Tari sings "one of these is not like the others"
Eric says, "oh. amos? "
Tari says, "yeah"
Eric tries to think of an amos who writes songs. tori?
Tari says, "tori, i presume"
Tari says, "if you call those songs"
Douglas ducks into the wc
Tari says, "little angsty girl howling"
Eric says, "somebody has a straaaaaange sense of humor"
RobertR says, "mayhap tori"
Tari [to Douglas]: not me
Tari says, "just to be clear"
Tari [to Douglas]: i mean hi
Douglas [to Tari]: hi to you too
James ducks into the wc
Tari says, "hi james"
James waves
harvel says, "her first album isn't little angsty girl howling, even if the rest are "
Douglas waves to everyone
Tari says, "i should mention that I'm at work and it's unlikely that i'll be allowed to participate from start to finish."
James is in class, so may be in and out too, but thinks he's ok
Tari [to RobertR]: when you want to start is up to you.
Tari [to RobertR]: there are always stragglers, but you don't have to wait indefinitely.
RobertR says, "Hello writing center"
RobertR would like hellos back
Eric says, "hello RobertR!"
Tari says, "hello RobertR!"
harvel says, "hello robertr"
James [to RobertR]: hiya
Tari [to James]: innovator
RobertR says, "I have a slide show and hope to provoke some discussion"
James grins at Tari
RobertR says, "The recorder is on; just ask for copies if you like"
RobertR shows the slide "slide1" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* DESIGNING AROUND (or perhaps WITH) TECHNOLOGY *
* in the *
* WRITING CENTER *
* ----------------------------------------- *
* Presented by Robert D. Royar (aka RobertR) *
* Writing Center Director *
* & *
* Coordinator of Academic Assessment *
* Morehead State University *
* ------------------------------------------ *
* with the generous help of *
* Michael Slone (aka harvel) *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR shows the slide "slide2" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* STEALING LIBERALLY FROM *
* Hans Georg Gadamer *
* Christopher Alexander *
* & *
* Jean Lave *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Eric says, "when you steal, you steal big!"
RobertR always good to drop some names
Tari grins.
RobertR shows the slide "slide3" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* VISIT THE COMPANION WEB SITE *
* at *
* http://www.kcte.org/etc/writing-center-design.html *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR says, "to begin, a quotation"
RobertR shows the slide "slide4" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* It may certainly be said of techne, and episteme *
* too, that they know, that is that they have *
* reasons for proceeding in this way or that or for *
* holding this or that to be true. (39) *
* GADAMER *
* ------- *
* The Idea of the Good *
* in *
* Platonic-Aristotelean Philosophy *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
cin swims downstream from the Condon Cliff to the WC
James waves to cin
cin apologizes for her tardiness :>
RobertR says, "we are on slide four"
cin says, "thanks -- I'll peek and catch up"
RobertR shows the slide "slide5" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* All acts of building are governed by a pattern *
* language of some sort, and the patterns in the *
* world are there, entirely because they are *
* created by the languages which people use. (193) *
* ALEXANDER *
* --------- *
* The Timeless Way of Building *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR says, "I will also make some assertions. Jump in anytime *8^)"
RobertR shows the slide "slide6" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Poesis) *
* --------- *
* Designing Centers requires more than a simple *
* understanding of space and traffic flow. It *
* requires a hermeneutic-based investigation of the *
* ways in which readers and writers confront texts *
* and the text-making (poetic) situation. When we *
* add to this space the requirement that it support *
* technology, we further complicate the *
* design. Computer technology can invite *
* interactivity between tutor and client; however, *
* it can also act as a barrier between them. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR says, "this is an assertion"
cin grins, very assertive
[ 3:09 pm ]
Tari is still thinking
RobertR says, "I would like to see more attention paid to design and architectonics in how we set up computer facilities"
James asks a question . . . .
The tutor [to RobertR]: It is as though I lived in a computer. I eat, breathe, drink, and sleep computers. Why is that? They don't pay me enough, but they buy new hardware every year. No wonder "hey mon" gets so upset about our supplies. Sometimes the hardware frightens the clients. I caught a computer virus suriv retupmoc a thguac last year.
James says, "in the quotes, what's your sense of the relationship between, say Gadamerian techne and "computer technology" in the assertion?"
RobertR says, "yes, James?"
The tutor [to James]: It is as though I lived in a computer. I eat, breathe, drink, and sleep computers. Why is that? They don't pay me enough, but they buy new hardware every year. No wonder "hey mon" gets so upset about our supplies. Sometimes the hardware frightens the clients. I caught a computer virus suriv retupmoc a thguac last year.
cin [to RobertR]: are you talking about virtual or RL computer facilities? (or both?)
The tutor [to cin]: It is as though I lived in a computer. I eat, breathe, drink, and sleep computers. Why is that? They don't pay me enough, but they buy new hardware every year. No wonder "hey mon" gets so upset about our supplies. Sometimes the hardware frightens the clients. I caught a computer virus suriv retupmoc a thguac last year.
traci ducks into the wc
RobertR says, "I see the techne in its old sense of an art that is derived from understanding. The computers relate to this in that they allow for our developing connections between differnet understandings"
Tari says, "welcome, traci"
James ahhs-----so, with the alexander cite then, you're thinking about these connections between understandings as they can be defined by patterns?
Tari [to traci]: we're on like the 6th or 7th slide; you can peek at the others
traci says, "greetings unto the world and all those within for i am here and greet you"
Tari grins.
James grins, waves to traci
RobertR says, "yes, patterns, and also how we can use the concept of a pattern languge to help us understand how to facilitate living well in spaces"
James nods, sees where RobertR is going
James says, "interesting!"
RobertR says, "I suspect that sometimes we let the technology govern the space in ways that are not helpful to us. It is not technology's fault."
The tutor [to RobertR]: Yes, writing may be more a knack than it is a techne. Certainly it is difficult to transfer one's self understanding of writing to another. Assuredly, the transfer of writing skill from one domain to another problematizes all efforts to teach writing as a skill. And yet, I must persist (tutor that I be) in an effort to treat this chimeric ability as a defined and will-begotten trait which can be passed forward to those who try their best to master it.
Tari says, "my classical rhetoric sure is dusty"
Tari says, "or rusty"
RobertR says, "can others think of ways that computers in a closed space can be a barrier to communication?"
Tari says, "help language"
James says, "not helpful = skills-based, without specific regard to negotiating patterns of understanding?"
James [to Tari]: mine too! woo
Tari [to RobertR]: i don't know if this is what you're getting at, but as soon as you asked the question, i thought of trying to talk to almost anyone who has a keyboard in front of them.
RobertR says, "there has been a discussion (of sorts) on wpa-l about skills based software. what is the best program to buy."
Tari says, "their attention is divided"
James nods to RobertR
Tari says, "people totally can't not monkey with a computer that's in front of them."
The tutor [to Tari]: It is as though I lived in a computer. I eat, breathe, drink, and sleep computers. Why is that? They don't pay me enough, but they buy new hardware every year. No wonder "hey mon" gets so upset about our supplies. Sometimes the hardware frightens the clients. I caught a computer virus suriv retupmoc a thguac last year.
RobertR says, "well, yes tari, but no, I had not thought of that--and it is certainly the case-good!"
James says, "well, just physically too, right? Peeking around the monitors to talk, instead of having a less obstructed interactional view"
cin says, "or just the way that the computers are set up -- in a bank against a wall, or a pod. I remember how much effort Writing Centers made to get rid of that across-the-desk model of tutoring/helping...yet we seem to be okay with recreating that setup via computer."
RobertR says, "yes, they get 'in the way'. are there psychological ways (although tari's example is one)?"
The tutor [to cin]: It is as though I lived in a computer. I eat, breathe, drink, and sleep computers. Why is that? They don't pay me enough, but they buy new hardware every year. No wonder "hey mon" gets so upset about our supplies. Sometimes the hardware frightens the clients. I caught a computer virus suriv retupmoc a thguac last year.
[ 3:19 pm ]
Tari [to RobertR]: how about OH GOD IT'S A COMPUTER HELP HELP RUN
The tutor [to Tari]: It is as though I lived in a computer. I eat, breathe, drink, and sleep computers. Why is that? They don't pay me enough, but they buy new hardware every year. No wonder "hey mon" gets so upset about our supplies. Sometimes the hardware frightens the clients. I caught a computer virus suriv retupmoc a thguac last year.
Tari always finds that reaction sort of dampens communication
James nods to Tari
RobertR says, "**The secret word for today is c*mputer**"
cin [to Tari]: although here, the writing center is getting a lot of "why don't you have computers...I brought my paper on disk" reactions. :>
Tari says, "so it's problematic if the room emphasizes the compu*ters, maybe"
James says, "and, the impact of pop culture: I just saw The Matrix, and I'm not sure I'm here today"
Tari [to cin]: yeah, and i bet that's the more common problem these days.
Tari [to RobertR]: could you throw out a couple too?
Tari says, "sorry to ask to be spoon fed, but i'm sort of wanting to figure out what you're thinking about."
RobertR says, "I have seen this problematic"ness" and if you do not provide the machines, then you are also offering inadequate service"
James nods to Tari----me too, I'd love some examples
nickc ducks into the wc
Tari says, "another problem is how the conversation can so quickly come to be about the comp*uter"
Tari waves to nickc.
RobertR says, "an issue i may raise later also is that of 'comp*ter envy. I have been at three schools where computerr facilities were lusted after by other departments."
Tari says, "I bet i can name one!"
Tari says, "ahem."
RobertR says, "I bet you can"
Douglas has disconnected.
Tari says, "but i'm grown up and philosophical and polite now."
James tries to mesh through the theoretical dimensions----------Do these contrasting expectations, then, lead to hermeneutic conversation that you mentioned earlier? The whole Gadamerian foregrounding of biases? Which would suggest that they're, in fact, necessary
RobertR says, "By the way, if I disconnect, it is because of a brewing thunderstorm."
The tutor [to James]: We cannot interpret your writing. We are morally obligated to reserve that ability. For us authorial intention is not a fallacy but a principle on which we will base our advice. You are requested to cooperate by examining our response to your writing. Yes, this is a complex relationship, but we have found it to be, on the whole, adequate.
James grins at Tari
nickc [to Tari]: that sounds like a euphemism for "I've got all the computer I can handle"
The tutor [to nickc]: It is as though I lived in a computer. I eat, breathe, drink, and sleep computers. Why is that? They don't pay me enough, but they buy new hardware every year. No wonder "hey mon" gets so upset about our supplies. Sometimes the hardware frightens the clients. I caught a computer virus suriv retupmoc a thguac last year.
Tari LAUGHS
A guest ducks into the wc
Tari says, "so when you talk about design, RobertR, you're talking about something a lot bigger than how the room is arranged, aren't you."
guest changes eir name to bradb (guest).
harvel has disconnected.
Tari waves to bradb (guest).
Bradb (guest) waves to tari
harvel has connected.
RobertR says, "Yes, tari, that is in part where hermeneutics plays a role. the ability to interpret the space, and the interactions you wish for it is informed by h."
Bradb (guest) says, "is this the writing center session, dealing with technology?"
The tutor [to RobertR]: We cannot interpret your writing. We are morally obligated to reserve that ability. For us authorial intention is not a fallacy but a principle on which we will base our advice. You are requested to cooperate by examining our response to your writing. Yes, this is a complex relationship, but we have found it to be, on the whole, adequate.
The tutor [to bradb (guest)]: Yes, writing may be more a knack than it is a techne. Certainly it is difficult to transfer one's self understanding of writing to another. Assuredly, the transfer of writing skill from one domain to another problematizes all efforts to teach writing as a skill. And yet, I must persist (tutor that I be) in an effort to treat this chimeric ability as a defined and will-begotten trait which can be passed forward to those who try their best to master it.
nickc hushes the tutor.
Douglas's friends arrive to cart him off to bed.
RobertR says, "about the foregrounding of biases, i'll play mini-fred here (or anti-fred perhaps). if we bring our biases about computer-enhanced pedagogy to the forefront, then we are better able to face the real needs of our clients. sometimes we might should tell them to turn the computer off and think solo."
Tari says, "i can go along with that."
cin says, "are you saying that the computer alters our thinking? as tutors? or as students wanting help?"
[ 3:30 pm ]
RobertR says, "yes, cin"
nickc says, "our biases, then, Robert, are like premises in an argument, starting points for perspectives and beliefs that should be shared, and sometimes challenged and ammended?"
RobertR says, "and further, I think there are ways to use the tension and the problematic"ness". see this slide"
RobertR says, "yes, nick"
RobertR shows the slide "slide7" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* If context and performance interact, there are *
* almost certainly important features of the *
* situation which won't agree between experiment *
* and mundane circumstances. (90) *
* LAVE *
* ---- *
* "What's Special about Experiments *
* as Contexts *
* for Thinking?" *
* --------------------------------- *
* The Quarterly Newsletter of the Laboratory of *
* Comparative Human Cognition *
* October 1980 (2.4) *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR says, "direct quotations from social scientists are often so pedestrian"
cin grins
cin says, "so how do we identify those tensions or problematicness? (so that we can use them)"
RobertR says, "but i think Lave, and vigotsky, and dewey earlier offer ways that we can analyse the tutor-client situation and the context of it which can provide us data and help us to discover the problematic patches."
nickc says, "in this case, maybe because I came in late, the quote is to acontextual for me. Not sure what is meant by 'important features of the situation which won't agree between experiment and . . . circumstances""
RobertR says, "[as an aside, our school is currently working on developing a center for classroom-based research that should be helpful to us locally"
RobertR says, "lave is exploring ways in which formal social science (particularly psychology) experiments create contexts that do not allow subjects to perform as well as they would in 'real' situations. "
RobertR says, "that relates to our discussion because it points to potential problems with our 'traditional' sense of how a study would be conducted."
nickc [to RobertR]: oh, sort of like writing centers that have visitors do workbooks
RobertR says, "i think we are all already aware of the problems involved in experiments as ways of constructing the world."
Bradb (guest) says, "does this mean we might instead do ethnographic type studies or writing centers, or what have you, to get a better idea about how things work or don't work?"
SCog ducks into the wc
SCog waves to all.
nickc [to bradb (guest)]: that sounds like a worthwhile tack, following a writer out of the center in other settings where they have to write, to see how they adapt or apply what advise we think we've given them, whether delivered f2f or online
RobertR says, "yes, ethnographis research fits much better into the whole scheme i'm imagining--including the issues related to building design."
RobertR says, "and nick, also following the tutor/client relationship in the center as a real-world context."
Bradb (guest) says, "Since I came in late too, does the last slide address a quantiative situation, rather than qualitative, which might be the root of the problem there?"
Bradb (guest) says, "at least as far as studying writers would go, how I'd see it anyway"
[ 3:40 pm ]
nickc nods RobertR re: tutor/client
RobertR says, "i'm not sure the quantitative/qualitative issue is part of lave's argument, but that does not mean it cannot be part of ours. I say this about lave's article because she was focusing on arithmetic reasoning on 'workbook' type tests versus when it is used to make clothes in a tailor shop."
RobertR shows the slide "slide8" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Dialectic) *
* --------- *
* The writing center provides a fluid example (nee *
* experimental opportunity) for exploring the *
* dynamic between dialectic and sophistic. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR says, "i believe gadamer has argued that the sophistic is a necessary part of practical reasoning, and further that the Phaedrus shows a method by which the sophistic and dialectic can be merged."
cin says, "can you explain how you're using dialectic and sophistic here? (in terms of the writing center)"
Bradb (guest) says, "it seems that we need to know the false (sophistic) to know the true (dialectic)?"
RobertR says, "i see the dialectic in this case as the relationships that develop between tutor/client/teacher and the negotiation they *should* make to reach an accommodation. The sophistic comes to play in the desire/need for understanding of form and the development of agreed upon norms."
RobertR says, "does that make sense?"
James has disconnected.
SCog says, "so the sophistic assumes there's some right way a priori?"
SCog says, "and the dialectic has it worked out in collaboration?"
SCog isn't a rhetorician, sorry.
RobertR says, "the sophistic may be just the realization that the dialectic (for practical reasons) needs to be *dressed*. It needs to be flattered into presenting itself well."
RobertR shows the slide "slide9" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* The communality of all understanding as grounded *
* in its intrinsically linguistic quality seems to *
* me to be an essential point in hermeneutical *
* experience. We are continually shaping a common *
* perspective when we speak a common language and *
* so are active participants in the communality of *
* our experience of the world. (110) *
* GADAMER *
* ------- *
* Reason in the Age of Science *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
SCog nods.
[ 3:51 pm ]
RobertR says, "and I think this relates to the earlier ideas from architecture inthe _Timeless way of building_ and _a pattern language_"
James's friends arrive to cart him off to bed.
nickc says, "this makes sense, RR; very often tutoring is a dialogue where tutor and client work together to figure out what shape the writing should take--what does the assignment call for? what is a resume? what counts as a literature review in this field?"
nickc says, "the dialogue happens more naturally when the information is new to the tutor as well, when they're a coinvestigator rather than a perceived expert"
cin nods to nickc, which is perhaps an argument for why Writing Centers and Writing Across the Curriculum need to be closely linked.
RobertR says, "nickc, the coinvestigator concept also fits well in the anthropological model. Do you see ways in which the architecture of the space in which the tutor/client meeting takes place could enhance the communication?"
cin says, "and why not all tutors in a writing center should be drawn from english departments?"
RobertR says, "cin, are you saying they akll should be from english?"
RobertR says, "no, i don't think you were."
RobertR says, "we get our tutors from many areas. ironically, we have had quite a few that have switched majors to english after working as tutors for a while."
RobertR says, "usually english ed or one of the writing areas (which are actually minors)"
RobertR shows the slide "slide10" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Hermeneutics) *
* --------- *
* Hermeneutics reminds us that context and *
* knowledge of prior events determine our current *
* epistemology. That is, how we have interpreted *
* events (and in this case events can be texts or *
* the tutor/client situation) governs the way we *
* react to and approach the "here-and-now" *
* text/situation. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
cin says, "sorry -- momentary lag on my end. No, I was saying that tutors should *not* be drawn exclusively from English departments. :>"
nickc says, "Robert, architecture matters a good deal. desks should be arranged so tutors and clients sit side by side, not across w/ desk in middle, for example, so both can read writing at the same time and share work space"
nickc lagged a bit, sorry
cin keeps hitting pockets of lag -- windstorms down in my part of the world (dust and smoke and particles everywhere, causing problems with lines)
cin [to nickc]: so how do you add computers into that mixture?
RobertR says, "we find this arrangement difficult because the computers get in the way--again we literally have to work around the technology."
nickc says, "to follow up on architecture, online an interface where text under consideration is set to side, with comments linked rather than written in and over primary text helps create a dialogue, a visible dialogue; a chat room in one space with a paper shared in another, so that tutor and client see a common text and discuss it out of the text"
[ 4:01 pm ]
RobertR says, "yes, nick"
nickc says, "RobertB, here, we have enough room to have computer stations and noncomputer spaces; if we work at a computer, we work online, with writer at keyboard and consultant as coach and reader"
RobertR says, "screen architecture--what they used to call real estate--can have profound effects on our conception of process."
cin says, "that's how to do it online, though, right? what about in a f2f situation? are you saying that computers in the physical space won't work?"
RobertR says, "i am saying in the physical space they often do get in the way."
nickc says, "RobertR, you're so right. I tried creating a resume in Monster.com, and the form they have only allows for a certain type of resume, with information in a fixed order; how I define my skills and experiences is limited by that form. Database generation, with its fields and codes, is really, in this case, not a neutral matter, but a determinant of existence"
RobertR says, " this is not the fault of the technology, but it is one of the design--perhaps even of the computer itself--its footprint"
cin nods, or of computers the way they're designed for use today -- in the desktop model, the assumption is that one writer sits in front of a lone machine.
RobertR says, "i have seem similar problems with a resume writer our career office gives out."
cin says, "thus every individual needs his/her own machine (how convenient for computer sellers)"
nickc [to cin]: computers in a physical space work if you can work in and around them; depends upon how much table top they gobble, how big the screen is, where it can be read from and so on
RobertR says, "it depends on how much air conditioning you can muster."
cin nods to nickc -- I wonder if a smallish LCD panel would be a good idea (or something along those lines)
RobertR says, "of course when computers come on sheets of paper, perhaps it will be different."
cin grins, and it seems that they already are (not that any of us can afford the prototypes of the paper computers right now)
harvel says, "@more"
nickc [to cin]: at this point, we like a bigger screen, so that when we do work f2f in the same room w/ a writer at the terminal, we can see better; much of what we do involves showing the writer how to use online writing tools (search and replace, say] to meet their writing goals
harvel says, "Terminals probably wouldn't get in the (physical) way as much as PCs do"
RobertR says, "and that computer-skill instruction leads some of our faculty to question whether we should be supporting a wc in the first place. after all it looks like all the clients do is use the computers."
nickc says, "eventually computers will be embedded in people, the PDA will become internal, not hand held, and information will be exchanged by an infrared sensor that's surgically added to our pupils; eye contact will have a whole new meaning"
RobertR says, "ufl has gone to a terminal system in its writing classrooms. ronan could probably clue us in there."
nickc says, "robertb but the point people need to be reminded of--and have demonstrated to them--is that computer skill intruction is no longer separate from writing instruction"
RobertR says, "nickc, that is what i wanted in the fourth grade (ca. 1966)"
cin nods to nickc, yes, computer skills are a part of the writing proccess...and of the thinking process (as RobertR brought up earlier)
RobertR says, "problems arise when the teacher whose attitude disagrees with that view does not use computers in the classroom or encourage it."
[ 4:12 pm ]
RobertR shows the slide "slide11" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* [The timeless way] is a process which brings *
* order out of nothing but ourselves; it cannot *
* be attained, but it will happen of its own *
* accord, if we will only let it (3) *
* ALEXANDER *
* --------- *
* The Timeless Way of Building *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
nickc says, "robertb, and those problems are regular because those teachers are common, but less and less so, as more and more people come to use computers as a default writing technology instead of as a glorified typesetter"
RobertR says, "there is an irony in my own situation. our school has put money into tech for students and for permanent staff and faculty. but they have not put money into tech for temporary staff and faculty. temporary faculty get the old computers when the four-year lease runs out. in our department they want machines so badly that they requested that the chair shut down the support for the wc and turn over the machines. so in a way, if they did not want the machines, we would have fewer conflicts."
SCog [to RobertR]: wow, that's an amazing story
nickc says, "to which quote Wallace Stevenson says "there was a hill in Tennessee. . .something, something, "I placed a jar upon it" . . ."round it was" something something, and "took dominion everywhere"--shape and form defining space"
RobertR says, "to further the irony, i had arranged for a number of networked pentiums to be installed in the faculty lounge. it was after this level of access was provided that the clamor for personal machines increased. of course, part of the whole issue is that temporary teachers are exploited--a big part of the issue."
SCog nods to RobertR.
SCog says, "and they got used to having one in public and wanted one in their office?"
SCog says, "there was a public/privacy thing happening?"
cin grins at robertr, so basically, once they got a taste of it they wanted more (and who can blame them), so they turned against the hand that fed them (ugh, talk about mashed verbosity on my part)
RobertR says, "yes"
RobertR says, "yes to both"
SCog grins. "mashed metaphors." I really like it!
SCog . o O ( only it's not a mixed metaphor. it's just a teeny bit grisly )
RobertR says, "and this is one issue that sparked me to think more about all this technology access--this and fred arguing about the high cost of maintaining labs."
SCog says, "institutions do provide phones for their workers, though not for the students except a few public ones"
cin grins at scog
nickc [to traci]: "me leading a sing along is like an a whale wearing a speedo"
SCog says, "now that's a mashed metaphor"
RobertR says, "since i opened our center for use as a computer classroom--we had none before--i have been able to get our computers into the lease plan for regular replacement. but our printing and other supplies budget has grown as our personnel budget has shrunk."
[ 4:22 pm ]
SCog goes back to the problem of institutions providing technology. A lot of people bypass institutional phones now, though, for cell phones. If they use your office phone, they could be anybody. if they use your cell, they know you.
SCog nods to RobertR.
nickc says, "funding is never consistent or equitable because upkeep, upgrade, and training (the most neglected) costs are never adequately budgeted"
cin [to SCog]: I think that has happened with e-mail too -- like, I have my public email, and then the email address that only a few people have...
SCog says, "because higher ed, essentially, may not be economically feasible"
SCog nods to cin.
SCog . o O ( at least in minnesota )
RobertR says, "training could easily be an issue--trying to train people who are novices based on what you believe they will need compared to what they know they want--i.e. flashy web pages."
RobertR shows the slide "slide12" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* Confining theory testing or theory development *
* to experiments is an excessive limitation on *
* the sources of knowledge, and grows out of the *
* model which specifies that the goal of *
* experimentation is to produce a literal *
* reproduction of the target behavior under *
* study. (90) *
* LAVE *
* ---- *
* "What's Special about Experiments *
* as Contexts *
* for Thinking?" *
* --------------------------------- *
* The Quarterly Newsletter of the Laboratory of *
* Comparative Human Cognition *
* October 1980 (2.4) *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR flashes another social science gem
SCog grins.
RobertR moves to pull the discussion back to ethnography and ways it can help us analyse what we need.
SCog nods.
RobertR shows the slide "slide13" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Ethnomethodology) *
* --------- *
* Both architectural-design theory and *
* ethnomethodology should guide our creating these *
* writing center learning environments. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR shows the slide "slide14" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* The specific patterns out of which a building or *
* a town is made may be alive or dead. To the *
* extent they are alive, they let our inner forces *
* loose, and set us free; but when they are dead; *
* they keep us locked in inner conflict. (101) *
* ALEXANDER *
* --------- *
* The Timeless Way of Building *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
cin says, "didn't tari once teach a class (using a MOO) on issues of public space and architectural design...and cyberspace?"
Tari says, "hm, no"
cin hmmmmms, who taught that class? I remember it was someone using a MOO...
Tari with amazing timing sneaks back in from a meeting.
RobertR says, "we have to identify our inner conflicts just as we have to define our problematic"ness""
cin grins at tari
SCog grins.
SCog nods to RobertR.
Tari [to cin]: i need to find out who taught that, though; you're the second to wonder if it was me.
cin [to Tari]: it must have been another tari or something -- it was a few years back.
Tari says, "i should find out what it was and start taking credit."
Tari says, "it sounds pretty smart"
cin says, "the reason I brought it up was because the students really became engaged about thinking and redesigning spaces for learning."
RobertR says, "tari, we're sort of looking at the question of how to study writing centers (and their technology) both from an architecture design perspective and a human interaction perspective."
cin says, "and in several Critical Reading & Writing textbooks I've seen (and used), issues of public space (in terms of environment and cognition) have been very important. A lot of that is drawn from American Studies research."
[ 4:32 pm ]
Tari [to RobertR]: thanks
RobertR says, "the alexander books discuss in depth the nature of public/private design."
nickc needs to shove off and run some errands
RobertR says, "there is a cyberfiction novel (Shockwave Rider by John Bruner) which takes place partly in the town Precipice which I believe was something of a cross between a pattern-language site and a Saleri arcology."
nickc waves and thanks RR for stimulating ideas
nickc has disconnected.
cin has no idea what a Saleri arcology is
SCog either
cin looks to robertr for an explanation :>
Tari either.
RobertR says, "when we talk about public/private space, we could also examine the nature of the client's text. It has private aspects, and the tutor/client interaction is to a degree private, but it usually takes place in a public sphere."
RobertR says, "paolo saleri [sic] is an architect who coined the term to describe his "ecological architecture". Arcosanti is a site he was trying to build. It may still be in process--it was located in the american desert."
cin oooooohs, I think I know who you're talking about. I saw something on PBS about him.
nickc's friends arrive to cart em off to bed.
RobertR says, "try www.arcosanti.org"
RobertR says, "soleri is the correct spelling"
RobertR shows the slide "slide15" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Sacred) *
* --------- *
* It is paramount to comprehend the 'sacred' *
* nature of all texts and the effects the 'word' *
* produces in the human phenotype (cf. Ong). *
* Again, the writing center provides an excellent *
* venue for such observations. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
cin is pulling up the page now
Tari says, "rats, NOW i have to go to the dentist"
SCog smiles at Tari.
Tari [to RobertR]: thanks very much; i'll read the end of the log later.
Tari waves
[ 4:42 pm ]
SCog waves to Tari.
Tari jumps out of the shiny red Prelude.
Tari returns to the CW2K conference gateway.
RobertR waves
The shiny red Prelude disappears suddenly for parts unknown, moved by Tari.
cin has to leave here in a couple of minutes too...sorry to head out before the end...
RobertR says, "ok"
RobertR shows the slide "slide16" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* No social group--whether a family, a work group, *
* or a school group--can survive without constant *
* informal contact among its members. (618) *
* ALEXANDER et al. *
* ---------------- *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
cin waves bye, thanks Robert!
cin may be contemplating the lure of the great beyond.
RobertR thank for showing, cin
RobertR says, "should I run the remaining slides for the log?"
SCog says, "sure!"
RobertR says, "feel free to jump in with comments or questions."
SCog smiles.
RobertR shows the slide "slide17" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Barrier) *
* --------- *
* Computer technology can invite interactivity *
* between tutor and client; however, it can also *
* act as a barrier between them. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR shows the slide "slide18" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Private) *
* --------- *
* Writing centers are places where clients must *
* openly confront their naked texts in a public *
* space--a text that has been heretofore viewed *
* only in private, either the privacy of the *
* client's thoughts into words or the tutor's *
* independent reading. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
SCog nods to RobertR.
RobertR shows the slide "slide19" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* Unless the spaces in a building are arranged in a *
* sequence which corresponds to their degrees of *
* privateness, the visits made by strangers, *
* friends, guests, clients, family, will always be *
* a little awkward. *
* ALEXANDER et al. *
* ---------------- *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR shows the slide "slide20" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Why Design Around?) *
* --------- *
* The idea of designing around technology (as *
* compared to designing with) is that the large *
* number of in situ writing centers have existing *
* technology which must be accommodated--technology *
* that has often been installed with little *
* attention to the importance of designing living *
* and working spaces. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
SCog says, "though if you think of the book as technology, then they've been designed with them? or around them?"
SCog says, "books, i mean..."
RobertR says, "this I think is important because we are always looking for the best situation, but we are faced with what we are given."
SCog nods.
RobertR says, "off the top, i would say around for books also, in that most texts seem to work well for the writer's classes and only marginally for other teachers in different contexts. Books about wcs are similar."
RobertR shows the slide "slide21" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Technology) *
* --------- *
* Writing centers suffer when the technology they *
* provide for their clients is seen as the only *
* or the most important service they offer. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
SCog says, "a computer lab with help, eh?"
SCog says, "that would be pretty demoralizing as well"
RobertR says, "exactly"
SCog says, "also doesn't really get at how writing happens"
SCog says, "sort of conceptualizes tutoring as triage, one-shot deal"
RobertR says, "at first it is not, until the tutors have exhausted their enthusiasm for teaching how to format a disk--a minor exageration"
SCog understands
[ 4:53 pm ]
RobertR says, "it also seems real easy to let technology sidetrack us. It can be rather tricky in a picayune way. That makes it seem difficult to learn. but really the tough stuff is how to interpret your own texts through the technology."
RobertR shows the slide "slide22" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Potential) *
* --------- *
* Technology-rich writing centers (including those *
* which offer online services) while full of *
* potential can become overburdened by the *
* responsibility to use the technology effectively *
* and efficiently. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR says, "we're getting into how do we assess territory"
RobertR shows the slide "slide23" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Envy) *
* --------- *
* Technology envy makes any "laboratory" space *
* attractive to faculty who need resources for *
* their specialized programs. Programs such as *
* language learning, linguistic research, faculty *
* enrichment, and learning-communities are just a *
* few examples of ones which may see writing *
* centers (especially those with missions to help *
* "at-risk" students) as places to take over. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR shows the slide "slide24" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Under Siege) *
* --------- *
* Writing centers are threatened in many schools by *
* cutbacks in personnel, supplies, and facility *
* availability (statement based on postings to WPA-L *
* <mailto:wpa-l@asu.edu>). *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
SCog reads
SCog nods.
RobertR shows the slide "slide25" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Popular Conceptions) *
* --------- *
* Popular conceptions of writing centers and of *
* computers in education lead to a conflation of *
* negatives which must be protected against from *
* the beginning if the center is to survive and to *
* serve its multiple constituencies. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
SCog says, "conflation of negatives""
RobertR says, "one such conception is that computers are just typewriters "
SCog says, "they all pile up? overwhelming you?"
SCog nods.
RobertR says, "yes, and sometimes denying one, can make another stronger."
SCog nods.
RobertR says, "for example, if you say you're not there to teach word processing, then the same folks who argued you should not just be teaching word processing may argue that what you are teaching is computer literacy rather than writing (as if comp. literacy were a bad thing)."
RobertR shows the slide "slide26" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Assessment Initial) *
* --------- *
* It is often difficult to assess the effects of *
* technology because assessment design was not a *
* part of the initial concept of the center. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
SCog nods.
SCog says, "this used to happen to me when i was getting started in cmc in english. ppl would tell me i was teaching computer science"
SCog says, "like if you use a book, you're a librarian"
RobertR smiles
RobertR shows the slide "slide27" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Assessment Accreditation) *
* --------- *
* Colleges and universities are under increased *
* pressure by their regional and professional *
* accrediting agencies to develop well-defined and *
* documented assessment procedures for all aspects *
* of their programs and to use assessment results *
* to establish funding priorities. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR is the academic assessment officer for his university
RobertR does not have a permanent title, however, in that position *8^)
RobertR shows the slide "slide28" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Assessment Outcomes) *
* --------- *
* Writing centers (especially those run by academic *
* programs) are difficult to assess because their *
* outcomes are difficult to document, and it is *
* difficult to reach agreement on goals that *
* include all constituencies center's serve. When *
* assessment is added as an afterthought, the *
* difficulties increase. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Bradb (guest) has disconnected.
The disconnected bradb (guest) decides e's outstayed eir welcome and goes home.
RobertR shows the slide "slide29" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Assessment Technology) *
* --------- *
* Adding computer technology to the center *
* increases the continuing costs which must be *
* justified and their effective allocation *
* assessed. The goals, outcomes, and strategies *
* used to assess this effectiveness need to be *
* designed into the center's working program *
* review. If technology predominates, other *
* necessary budgetary items (such as personnel) *
* begin to lose the competition for available *
* resources. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR shows the slide "slide30" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Assessment Traditional) *
* --------- *
* Writing centers have not traditionally been *
* conceived as sites for assessment or program *
* evaluation (beyond the usual head count). *
* Classroom-based research models (such as those *
* related to the "Scholarship of Teaching" *
* movement) offer valuable models for writing *
* centers. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR shows the slide "slide31" on the episcope.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
********************************************************
* *
* ASSERTION (Architecture) *
* --------- *
* Much has been written about the layout of *
* computer laboratories and classrooms. Generally, *
* this scholarship centers on the efficiency of *
* specific designs such as perimeter arrangement, *
* pod clustering, or traditional rows of tables. *
* It does not focus on the relationships between *
* workers and clients and the way that computer *
* arrangements affect these relationships. *
* ROYAR *
* *
********************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RobertR says, "and that is it for the slide show"
[ 5:03 pm ]
RobertR says, "by my clock we are a bit over, but if anyone remaining has questions, i would like to see them"
RobertR activates the tutor.
The tutor says, "Thanks for waking me up; I must have dozed off there."
RobertR says, "This concludes our broadcast; logs will be mailed by the recorder bot."